It's been a little under two years since Gwen and Wendy invaded the UK underground scene. The series can already count on hundreds of fans and quite a good pile of well-packed issues.
Gwen and Wendy are the titular protagonists of this underground post-apocalyptic series. They also have an adopted goblin daughter, Theodora. Together, they roam the moors of West Yorkshire, debating heavy metal bands and defiling landmarks.
TJ Motte is not just an incredibly entertaining and versatile artist; his production output commands respect. While Gwen, Wendy and Theodora are on the road to Industrial - chapter 4 , TJ has agreed to put the pen down a little while and have a conversation.
Q: Are Gwen and Wendy characters that have been brewing in your mind for many years? If so, what was the incentive to put them in print in 2023?
Actually they came to me quite suddenly, almost accidentally. I started drawing pictures of the architecture in my hometown in England, and thought it'd be a nice running joke to have two tourists visiting each building. I wanted them to be distinctly not-English, so one was Welsh and one was Scottish (both have very distinctive hats).
The characters didn't even have names for a while. Then I thought I'd try making a comic about them, just for a laugh and improvising from page to page, and it turned into Gwen and Wendy, which very quickly took over my life.
Q: It seems you have a lot of talent in both the drawing and writing departments, especially when it comes to writing convincing characters and unexpected storylines. It feels like you won’t be out of ideas for at least the next decade! Do you have any background in creative writing?
Maybe not quite a decade, but certainly enough for the next couple of years. I've always enjoyed writing, even as a kid, and I’d dabbled in all sorts with many unfinished and unpublished projects. It was only once I started doing comics though that the writing seemed to click, and comics are the only thing I’ve published.
Q: Doom and Power were single, yet interdependent chapters. Sludge had two chapters, and followed on the previous issues. You’re currently onto Industrial and, at the time of writing these lines, this arc sits at three chapters and is ongoing.
From Doom to Industrial, it’s one big chain of events. Are you worried of inadvertently trapping yourself in an endless plot or do you already have a cohesive structure and a final destination in mind?
There is no final destination, and I will almost certainly be trapped in an endless plot, but I don't mind that at all. I think of Gwen and Wendy more like Peanuts or those seemingly endless mangas, rather than a conventional graphic-novel with a beginning, middle and end.
While I am drawing one issue I'll be writing the script to the next one, and pondering the issue after that. This method no doubt has many downsides in structure and what not, but it's how I enjoy writing, and I like seeing the comic evolve naturally in a strange meandering way
Q: There’s the jolly band of amnesiac kids in Industrial, but before that you also had a hefty chunk of Power that dealt with a woman that couldn’t help but take a spoonful from the stomachs of the recently deceased.
Both the gang and this poor soul feel like complete individuals, on par with Gwen and Wendy, not just plot devices to further their adventures. What’s your process like when you’re writing these secondary characters? Does it require the same amount of creative effort as with Gwen and Wendy?
I've never really thought about my process in character creation. I suppose I ponder my new characters lots and lots, until I know how they would think and feel and react to a situation. I also try to make my characters a little imperfect and inconsistent, just like real people.
Almost all my characters have some good and some bad attributes, and most of them are hypocrites.
This method works well in a comic like Gwen and Wendy, with very few characters. We'll have to see how I get on as more and more individuals are added to the narrarive.
The amnesiac kids were quite challenging though, as all seven are introduced in one go and they're all fairly similar (all girls, all similar age, all dressed the same). I had to make sure they're personalities were distinct, often by relying on archetypes (the clever one, the bossy one etc) before adding to those simple frameworks. Sometimes I find simple keywords are a helpful place to start
Q: A Trip to Leeds is notable for its format, it’s much larger than all of your other Gwen and Wendy books. Do you ever intend on going back to this format? What would incentivize you to reuse it?
I've tried a few sizes now, but I'm very happy with A5. It feels really nice to read a comic in that size I find. It just sits so pleasantly in your hands. I might do some more in the even smaller A6, but I don't think I'll ever return to the A4 size of A Trip to Leeds. It's too big. It's the odd one out in many ways.
Q: You’ve got extensive documentation on UK architectural landmarks. We can see countless examples of your interpretation of historical churches, bridges, buildings of all sorts. Often accompanied by significantly mutated monsters. Do you make a point of travelling as often as you can and make some drafts as you travel?
Absolutely. My third comic, Clocktober, featured buildings from around the world, none of which I'd actually seen with my own eyes. I quickly realised that I don't like drawing from other people's photographs or from Google Maps.
Since then I've visited the buildings and towns featured in the comics and used my own photographs as reference, with a handful of exceptions (usually when characters are imagining buildings).
This means almost all Gwen and Wendy adventures take place around where I live, often in small towns barely known outside West Yorkshire, but I think this gives Gwen and Wendy some of its character. I still have no idea what my international audience makes of places like Keighley and Dewsbury and Wetherby. You'll have to let me know!
Q: Your monsters are often found in your spinoff comics and they are quite spectacular, especially when joined to your architectural renditions. Can we expect a book of monsters down the line, some sort of imaginary bestiary?
I've been thinking about doing that for ages, because I love drawing the goblins and trolls and what not. Sadly it's been pushed down the to-do-list by various other projects. Some day I'll do it, I'm sure.
Q: Tell me if I’m misjudging, but I feel that when you began selling Gwen and Wendy comics, you must have been worried about its reception by the public. Afterall, while the covers might look like these books could work with children or teenagers, the series truly is meant for adult audiences.
Are you surprised by the fanbase you’ve managed to build in so little time and the generally positive feedback you’re received?
It's a massive surprise. I never thought anyone would like my comic, and never expected it to take off in any meaningful way. Each little milestone (first sale, first tabling, first interview) has been a wonderful and surreal experience.
It was never the darkness or adult themes that I thought would put people off though, as lots of comics are incredibly macabre, even mainstream ones (Spawn for example). It was more because Gwen and Wendy is so tonally inconsistent and extreme in its themes, whipping back and forth frenetically between cute whimsy and the genuinely nightmarish. I never imagined anyone enjoying that sort of stuff beyond myself.
But I am always worried about kids accidentally coming across my comic and thinking it looks nice and fun. I never meant to mislead anyone with the childlike cartoony style, that's just how I draw. So I'm always upfront and honest - Gwen and Wendy is disgusting, disturbing and offensive, and it's only going to get more so in the future. Absolutely not for children!
Q: You’ve been experimenting with lino prints recently. So far your projects have been quite beautiful and could make for wonderful gifts. What was your experience with this medium so far? Any plans related to Gwen & Wendy lino prints?
I love lino printing. It's completely different from drawing and I adore all the unpredictable imperfections you get. You can never quite tell how a print will look until it's inked up and finished, and that first reveal is incredibly exciting (though sometimes brutually disappointing and frustrating). I like to give my prints away to people that enjoy them.
I'm working on a new comic, where Gwen and Wendy go to Bristol in south-west England, and I'll be putting lots of linoprints into the comic. It'll be the first time I've published my prints. It's exciting.
Q: Gwen has expressed her frustration with drawing feet and hands. I can’t help but think this is something you relate to and it was your way of communicating it to your readership. Are you on the same level as Gwen when it comes to those appendages or have you found a generally comfortable limb configuration to draw?
Gwen and comics is identical to me and comics, so all her experiences are my own. That probably won't surprise anyone. So yes, I always struggle drawing hands and feet, although I don't really even try to go for anatomical accuracy. Cars are my least favourite to draw, by far. That might be why Gwen and Wendy drive a bus.
Q: Clocktober is a small gem. The book has Gwen, Wendy and Theodora visiting iconic West Yorkshire clocks, while also depicting the life of Saint Mary. It seems fair to state that architecture and religion go hand in hand when it comes to West Yorkshire history and even England’s history.
We can confidently ascertain that architecture is very important in your art. But how significant is religion in Gwen & Wendy? I suppose it’s a feature of the pre-apocalyptic world, but we do see cults and new religions arising amidst the wasteland.
Religion is a massive theme in Gwen and Wendy, and most of the characters belong to one religion or another, Wendy being an exception. Christianity, particularly the history and architecture, is a rich source of inspiration even if I'm not Christian myself.
Then there's Gwen's conversion to Hinduism in issue 2, although how much she actually understands is as yet unclear, and most of the side characters belong to various post-apocalyptic cults (one of my favourite tropes from the post-apocalyptic subgenre, and maybe the only trope I utilise).
There's also lots of religious themes and metaphors with many of the darker sections of the comic, but I don't really want to spell it out and make it too obvious for my readers.
Q: It might sound a bit silly, but we do have a craft brewery in Quebec called Brasserie Dunham that tasks (and pays, of course) local artists with creating concepts for their bottle labels.
How would you feel about having Gwen and Wendy on a craft beer bottle label and, if so, what type of alcoholic beverage would best fit them?
I don't drink myself, despite Gwen and Wendy being heavy drinkers (to put it midly). But we have a pop in the UK called Irn Bru which is made in Scotland. Gwen and Wendy drink almost as much as me (it even affects the story sometimes). I'd love to collaborate with Irn Bru in any way possible.
Q: With the significant efforts you’re putting in Gwen and Wendy, do you have room for hypothetical collaborations on other projects? What about contributing to underground anthologies?
I've collaborated with my brother in the past. He's a brilliant comic creator himself, who goes by the name THREESIX, if I can give him a bit of a plug. I've been featured in all 6 of his Headfuck anthologies. That's how I started doing comics really.
I'd be very happy to be featured in other anthologies, but I'm only doing Gwen and Wendy at the moment so wouldn't be able to do any collaborations, at least not at the moment.
Q: Often, when it comes to publication pacing, artists will note some significant obstacles to their output, such as work or personal situation. Which is completely understandable, of course. Your output, however, has been quite impressive. Instead of asking what obstacles you might be facing, I’ll inquire on the things that keep you going like you do. What’s your secret?
I'm not sure what my secret is if I'm honest, but that's not much of an answer. I suppose it's very easy to keep going when you're motivated, and the best way to stay motivated is always make the thing that you want to do, regardless of what others will make of it.
This isn't particularly insightful, and countless others have said it before me, but it really is great advice. I hope that people can tell that I genuinely love everything in Gwen and Wendy, and that's why I'm doing it. I want that love to come across.
Another secret - never demand perfection. I've made around a dozen imperfect comics. If I was aiming to make a 'perfect' comic I still wouldn't have finished a single issue.
There's going to be slightly rushed drawings, slightly inelegant lines of dialogue, slightly mishandled plots, but that's okay - in fact I think it's good. It's what imbues any creative work with humanity and soul.
And a final tip, more mundane, but I think brilliant advice (which I got off some chipper young man on Youtube) - Always do a little bit every day, no matter how busy or exhausted. Just a panel if need be.
This helps keep me going better than anything - projects never get abandoned, work always gets done, distractions get minimised, plus you don't beat yourself up for not working enough. I always do a single gag a day, a very reasonable task for myself, and then all the rest flows from that.
Gwen and Wendy webstore: https://gwenandwendy.bigcartel.com/
TJ Motte's Instagram page: https://www.instagram.com/gwenandwendy/
